Movie goers might know Jenn Harris from her recent appearance in Cord Jefferson’s “American Fiction,” or for her web series “New York is Dead,” or from a number of other television appearances over the years. But the actress, writer and director has a new project that brings her thoughts on intimacy and dating out to the forefront.
“She’s Clean” is a short film written by, directed by and starring Harris, about a woman who decides to shower with all of her dates in an attempt to find that perfect balance of sexual and emotional intimacy. The film takes place entirely in the bathroom and strikes a nuanced cord of humor, awkwardness, romance, and everything else that comes along with the modern dating scene.
“She’s Clean” has been making the rounds at film festivals and is now available to watch online. Rough Draft Atlanta recently spoke to Harris about the making of the film, how it feels to get the ick, and why she loves directing.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
I really enjoyed the film, I thought it was a very interesting take on intimacy and dating. But I’m interested in where the title came from. Obviously, you’re in a shower, but I assume there’s more to it than that.
Jenn Harris: You know, I haven’t gotten asked that question too much, so I’m kind of excited to talk about it. I think the first initial thought about it is sometimes, in sort of current, recent vernacular, and around my friends, there’s a lot of talk in the third person, and the use of the pronoun “she” in this sort of general way. Not meaning positive, negative, indifferent – just sort of giving the feminine control … over reactions, behavior, vernacular. Just kind of the feminine taking over.
Not that I, for my film, need the feminine to take over. There’s no sort of capturing, or strong arming anything about my film or the title. But speaking in the third person is sort of an ownership of the self, I think is the better phrasing. In the film, I find the woman character very reflective throughout. Rather than being super reactionary, I think she’s more of a reflective character against the reactions of the men. I think she’s sort of reflecting what her reactions would or could be in the moment with these intimate connections with men. She’s reflecting on it, and she’s taking herself in the third person.
I think there’s something that’s equally removed about thinking of yourself in the third person, but also kind of its own ownership in a way. Like, when I think of using, “I. Me. Jenn” – there’s something very, of course, very personal about that. When I think of, “She. Woman,” I think of something more universal and less lonely. There is something a little less lonely in the use of the third person. With the vernacular, and the collective, I think that we’re attempting something more partnered and more communal when we use the third person. I think that “She’s Clean” is her addressing her own self, and something more communal and less lonely. And also, at the end of the film she’s looking at herself. She’s reflecting herself. She’s very much with herself in this film. I don’t think she ever slips away. Ever. From the very beginning to the end. She gets nervous, and she might get a little sponged into their desires and needs and wants. But I don’t think she’s ever not reflecting on herself.
The reflected part is so interesting. I’ve read that this comes from a lot of your and your friends’ experiences dating – so it’s kind of a meta thing, in that sense. Like you’re reflecting on it by making this movie, and she’s reflective in the movie.
Harris: That’s also why there’s no names in the film either. I mean, they have names [laughs] – not all films say people’s names. I kind of get annoyed by that. It’s like, “Kevin, come in the room. How are you Kevin? How’ve you been, Kevin?” It’s like, stop! Do the scene!
Yeah, people don’t talk like that.
Harris: The fact that I don’t give them names is less of a big thing than just well, they didn’t say each other’s name in the scene. It’s more that. But I do think that the Woman – calling her the Woman … it’s just a less lonely space to be in, when you think of something more collective. Maybe other women are going through certain things too. And then of course, personally to your point, these were my experiences and my female friends’ experiences.
I did find parts of it really relatable, in that sense. One thing I found particularly interesting is how quickly the vibe can kind of shift. There’s one guy, and you’re kissing him and he’s a little shy. You start to flirt, and he immediately switches into calling you a rude name. It’s this complete mood shift, and I know I’ve experienced that kind of thing. I was wondering, was that something you were actively trying to capture? What were the aspects of dating you were thinking about?
Harris: You absolutely got it. Man, I’d be interested to ask you a question after this. My exploration of intimacy with this short is all the various kinds of things. But when you’re so vulnerable and intimate with something, and something changes so quickly – and that one is a bit of a dangerous moment, or it could be, if she wasn’t able to handle herself the way she did. And then, on the same cuff, there’s a guy who goes, “Oh! My fitness class” … It’s the same sort of [thing], like – wait, I thought we were doing something?
Yeah, I thought this was something different.
Harris: You know, it’s miscommunication, too. Oh, I thought we were here, but now we’re here. But you don’t have the ability, or you’re choosing not to communicate with me why we’re now here. That’s something that I – I mean, I don’t know, maybe there are men that can tell you differently that I’ve dated – but I’ve never understood. Communication is, I think, quite easy for me. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t. So I find it personally super interesting in the dating world … that people aren’t able to. For whatever reason, right? For whatever reason they can’t. But there’s this switch, this moment.
I’m curious, when you said you could relate to it…
It wasn’t necessarily that specific. It wasn’t necessarily a dangerous situation.
Harris: Good.
Some of it’s like what you were talking about, right? Someone all of a sudden is like – oh, I have to go somewhere. And you’re like, okay? It’s just kind of this abrupt change. Some of it also getting the ick a little bit, you know?
Harris: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
One thing just kind of changes everything. No matter how small or large it is, really.
Harris: Yeah. Isn’t that interesting? This is quite new. I shot this film almost three years ago, two and a half years ago, and this phrase “the ick” has come out. I’m like, wow – this is so interesting. Anyway, that’s a whole other conversation.
I guess there are instances of getting the ick. We just didn’t have a name for it back when you were shooting.
Harris: Yeah, she’s definitely getting the ick in moments. It’s what she does next – hopefully not go back to that person. But you know, some men come back that she’s had the ick for. You know, the guy’s going off on her about the Byzantine Empire and giving her a history lesson, and yet he’s still around. Whether that’s the same night or another night, it doesn’t necessarily matter for the audience.
Where did the shower idea come into play? I know these are based on some personal experiences, but I can’t imagine all of those happened in the shower.
Harris: Honestly, I wanted the challenge, as a filmmaker, to keep it in one location. My two previous works, one was on a boat, but then I had one where I had like, 20 locations – I’m like, oh my god. It wasn’t necessarily easier, though I thought it would be. But I wanted the challenge as a filmmaker to try to first of all, write something that wasn’t linear – something that was a little bit more of a mosaic or a montage, and something that was a little more emotionally connected rather than site specific or … location driven. I wanted the challenge as a filmmaker to have to make one room interesting for 15 minutes, and I wanted to play with shots and angles – obviously not a lot of wides, because we couldn’t. But I wanted to do that. Because of the story, it’s intimate. So I wanted, as well, to keep it intimate, and if I opened it up and brought it physically into another room, what would I lose?I think I would have lost some things if we saw her outside, or if we saw her entering the house, or if we saw her in the kitchen, or at work. I think I would have lost something for the short. And then I chose the bathroom because it’s funnier. It’s the funniest room in the house.
You do the funniest things in there.
Harris: It’s the most intimate, and the most funny. It’s also a private space. To open it up to her public, to open it up to other people … to extend intimacy into the most intimate room in the house, I thought was bold for her. It went somewhere for me that I wanted to explore. I really did want to go somewhere with this film, and I wanted us to feel like, oh, this is fun, and funny, but also ugh – we’re in the bathroom! We’re still in the bathroom. We’re just in the bathroom. There’s kind of no escape in a bathroom, unless you just leave. There’s mirrors everywhere, and there’s a toilet, and then there’s spaces where you have to be naked, or else your clothes will get wet.
Shooting in that one location, did any challenges arise that you weren’t really anticipating? What was the most challenging aspect of that?
Harris: You know, I didn’t. We were so prepared. I was so overly prepared. It was also COVID. I rented this entire brownstone, so we had floors and an outside. The guys had a dressing room, they had a bedroom … We just had to have space.
I think the things that were challenging were like – you know, I knew that I wanted the shower on, so sound. Jack Straton, who did our sound, did an amazing job. Charlie [Gruet] and I, Charlie, the director of photography, we noticed that the shower – because we had a beautiful glass [shower], of course I wanted a glass shower – it fogged up. And we didn’t think about that [laughs]. We actually didn’t think about, well, it’s going to fog up, and then we’re going to need to go back and sort of let the fog go down. How is this going to work? How are we going to match fog?
It honestly had never occurred to me, in all of our prep, what we were going to do about the fog. We ended up figuring it out, and also the fog just lended to some really great moments, and some beautiful textures for the film that look really lovely.
This is your second short film, is that correct?
Harris: This is my second film. “New York is Dead” was a web series that me and my friend Matt Wilkas made in 2017. It was at the Tribeca Film Festival.
You just appeared in “American Fiction” last year. Are you more interested in writing and directing at this point, or acting?
Harris: I will always act. I love it. Hopefully, you know, if people want me, I will always want to act. I absolutely love it. On film, television and stage. That will just be part of my life until I can’t memorize lines anymore and do it, until I’m old.
But with directing, it’s been my main interest for the past, you know – since we made “New York is Dead,” which was my first thing I produced as well. I was like, oh this is really great. I finished the Ryan Murphy HALF Initiative Program, and I’m going to shoot a video for them next week in L.A. Directing for television is something that I’m getting my foot in the door, trying to get my first episode. That is something that I’m focused on right now, but I definitely look forward to directing my first feature. I’m really excited about it.
I’m also in a space right now where I’m not writing really, because I’m really interested in, what does someone else’s idea bring up for me? I’m always like, oh I know what to do when I write it. I really want to imagine what isn’t in my head, what does not come from my head. Just the challenge of that … the film that I co-directed, “Island Queen,” I didn’t write. But I did produce it. You have clay in your hand when you’re a producer, and you’re just constantly going through it. So I would love to just take on the role as a director with someone else’s work next, and and work with them and see what ideas can come from someone else’s. But I will always make my own stuff. I will always write. But right now, directing is – I like the challenge! It scares me. It’s very scary.
That’s such a lovely way to look at it. I feel like most directors I know like to write their own stuff first and foremost, but I like the idea of it being a challenge to bring someone else’s work to life.
Harris: It’s just kind of scarier, and it’s a little bit of a different brain for me. It didn’t come from my guts. So it’s like taking someone else’s [idea], and how do I filter that through my guts, which isn’t different from acting. It’s the same sort of internal process for me. If I didn’t write the play – and I have written a couple that I’ve done myself – but most of the plays I do on stage, or film, television, theater – someone else wrote it, and I have to sift and put that inside of my body and figure out where it sits, and what makes sense to act it out through my instrument. It’s the same thing with directing someone else’s work. I want to have to sift through that and spit it out and paint it out on film. It’s the same process internally, it’s just different technically.