Think Spain in the summer. It’s beautiful, of course. But it’s also oppressively hot. You don’t really know anyone. The dog next door won’t stop barking. And your co-dependent mother won’t let you breathe.
This is the set up for “Hot Milk,” the feature directorial debut from British playwright and screenwriter Rebecca Lenkiewicz. Based on Deborah Levy’s novel of the same name, the film stars Emma Mackey as Sophia, a young woman who takes care of her wheelchair-bound mother, Rose (Fiona Shaw). It’s unclear what, exactly, ails Rose, but one summer the duo set off for Spain to meet with a doctor (Vincent Perez) who might be able to help. At the same time, Sophia meets the beautiful and mysterious Ingrid (Vicky Krieps), and strikes up a love affair.
“Hot Milk” is an intensely claustrophobic film, and not just because of the grotty stagnancy its title suggests. Originally, Lenkiewicz just came on to adapt, but as she made her way through the novel it became clear to her that she had to direct this one herself.
Rough Draft Atlanta recently spoke to Lenkiewicz about making the film. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
You’ve worked in adaptation quite a bit over the course of your career. For you, what makes something ripe for adaptation?
Rebecca Lenkiewicz: I think for me, it’s usually the psychology. Where are these people at the start, and where are they at the end? And for a film, whether it’s cinematic, whether it can translate to something visual. With “Hot Milk,”I found both the psychology of three women, and the visual details, the landscape, within the book – I found they were all sort of calling out for a kind of cinematic version.
I’ve heard you say that you were initially asked to just adapt the novel, and then the further you got into it, you were like, oh – I think I have to direct this one. Had you ever had that feeling before?
Lenkiewicz: I had wanted to direct for a while, but I hadn’t had a specific reaction to a piece of work. It was like – yeah, I want to direct. I want to be involved. But this book sort of grabbed me where it wasn’t about me directing, it was about nobody else directing [laughs]. Like, no! Stay away! It’s mine! So, it was very territorial.
I think that that was partly because it’s so incredibly female, and I could sort of feel the sensuality. I just wanted it to be kind of quite subtle and beautiful. Each [character] felt quite akin to me – not like I’m similar to them, but I just felt them very strongly, you know? It just became important to me, and I felt I had a lot to give to it, whereas with other projects I felt different directors were a very good fit to their project.
This film is a lot about codependency, but each relationship manifests that very differently. I was watching an interview with you where you said that the idea of codependency was a very interesting thing for you to explore. I’m curious as to why?
Lenkiewicz: I have a very good relationship with my mother, and she’s very supportive. I would say my relationship with my father was more complicated. When writing Rose and Sophia, I often would either laugh or cry in terms of some parallels. He wasn’t disabled, but … I think everyone in life has a complicated relationship with someone. So you then start exploring that complication at a distance and close up in art.
I think co-dependency is very interesting when you see it in couples or in a family. In this instance, it’s quite surprising because you can see that Rose would depend on Sophia as a carer, from age four onwards. But also, I think Sophia hides behind her own mother. She could go out, she is able, but there is almost like a shield from the outside world. So when Ingrid comes in … it’s like an ignition. I think that [Rose and Sophia] weave around each other. It’s not a straightforward, matriarchal domination. Rose could live without Sophia. But it’s just this sort of entanglement, really – and deep, deep love, which makes it more complicated again.
There are these sequences throughout the film where Sophia, who is an anthropology student, is watching videos of groups of women and communities throughout the world. It’s interesting that that’s the interest that she has, because anthropology involves looking at the past to try and figure out how to move forward. At the same time, I think both Rose and Sophia are very stagnant. Were you thinking about the tension of those two things and how to portray that visually?
Lenkiewicz: Definitely, and even down to things like patterns. Sophia sometimes mirrored her mother, and I didn’t even ask the actress, Emma Mackey, [to do that]. But sometimes she just would. Looking at her, she’d have the same twitch, or the same something. I think that that’s so interesting. Bodily patterns are interesting, and Sophia is fascinated by that, as is Gomez, the doctor.
Also just scenically, we wanted it to feel – like the apartment that they rent, it’s a holiday apartment, but there are no windows out to the sea. There’s no light. There’s just a dog barking. There’s this kind of slightly claustrophobic mise-en-scène. Our production designer, Andrey Ponkratov, really helped with that, and our cinematographer [Chris Blauvelt], in terms of the angles, of how we take them. We wanted them to feel in limbo, in a way. It’s set in Spain – we shot in Greece – but in a way, none of that mattered as long as we’re not at home – as long as you were somewhere else and somewhat stranded.
Speaking about the performers – Vicky Krieps and Fiona Shaw, I’ve seen in a million things, but Emma Mackey in particular, I’m curious how she came across your radar. Obviously, she’s been in “Sex Education,” and I think she’s brilliant in this movie.
Lenkiewicz: I watched “Sex Education.” I don’t watch a huge amount of TV, partly because it’s a big commitment [laughs]. You know, you watch something and suddenly it’s been 20 hours. Somebody said, “Oh, you’ve got to watch ‘Sex Education.’ It’s really funny, and it’s really great.” I started to watch it, and I did become addicted to each season. I thought Emma was just excellent in it. Then I watched “Emily,” where she played Emily Brontë, and she was amazing in that.
For Sophia’s quality – you know, in the book, it’s first person and she’s talking, so you know exactly what’s going on. But in the film, I didn’t want a voice over. I just wanted us to be sort of studying her, almost anthropologically. So you needed somebody who had a sort of intensity within her face. And Emma, she’s obviously a very beautiful young woman, but she also has this incredible intensity around her expression. There’s something always happening there, as a person or an actress, and I just thought she’d be incredible.
I asked her, and we met for a cup of tea. Vicky and Fiona were already on, and I think that that very much appealed to her, to be part of that sort of triptych – all three very different actors, but so incredibly brilliant.
Watching her, she’s got something really almost sharp about her. I was particularly struck by the way she blinks – it’s very forceful, but it works for the pent up emotion that the character is feeling.
Lenkiewicz: None of that is directed. I didn’t say, blink hard, or have a twitch. I just sort of saw what Emma wanted to offer, and it was very specific.
I know you’ve acted before as well. With this being your first time directing, do you think the fact that you’ve acted before affected your approach to directing?
Lenkiewicz: Well, I acted a long time ago. I went to drama school and then acted seven years – absolutely loved it. But I couldn’t sustain acting. I adored acting, and what it gave me was a deep respect for actors. Just because the process I understood more. A lot of my friends are actors, and I know how hard it is to act. I think some people think it’s quite a kind of privileged, entitled way of being and making a living. But it’s such hard work. I think that’s what it gave me, a recognition that it’s not only hard work and mysterious, but you have to be so resilient to be an actor. I didn’t have that resilience.
I just think they’re so brilliant. And also, in theater, they’re on the front line. If someone gives [me] a bad review, I can just hide, you know? But they have to be there doing the play every night. So yeah, it did give me a good understanding, and I loved it.
I did a bit in high school and college, but like you, found it very exhausting.
Lenkiewicz: It’s lovely to be a part of a company though, isn’t it? You’re supporting each other, and I miss that, you know?
Absolutely. I tried to do a little bit of community theater after graduating, but it’s just so hard to keep up with another job and all that stuff, you know? I do miss it a lot. It was very lovely.
Lenkiewicz: I don’t think I’ve laughed more than when I was in theater companies, you know what I mean? Because it’s part of it. You have to be able to play. You have to work hard, but you also have to play.
I think there’s also a freedom, especially in a good one. If you do something stupid, it doesn’t really matter, you know?
Lenkiewicz: Yeah! Yeah, there’s such a generosity. That’s what I found with our cast. None of them had met before the film, they just met on set. They had no rehearsal with each other. I rehearsed a bit individually with them in terms of talking through the script, but they just were there to be there for each other. That was very moving.
I read an interview with you where you said that all three of them had very different approaches to acting. What was it like watching them work together, and watching those gel?
Lenkiewicz: You have the script, and you hope that that’s a sort of hive, you know, and then they’ll all generate around that – whatever different sort of flying methods they have, they’re sort of queen bees coming into this hive. I just knew, as soon as they were meeting each other, that there was ignition. There was electricity. It was more important in terms of Emma Mackey and Fiona Shaw, because we had to believe that they were mother and daughter. As soon as they met, I could see them just, on a primal level, being very much with each other – laughing, being generous. Fiona spent the whole shoot in the wheelchair, so that was a very key thing, that Emma would always be looking down at her, or would be wheeling her. She was amazing at just wheeling her everywhere. I just hoped that that ignition key would happen, and it really did.
With Vicky, I was less worried because I thought, well, here are two strangers, and they meet, and they’re attracted to each other. But Emma and Vicky, when they actually met on the beach, they just had this instant kind of rapport and loved each other as actors. I had that privilege of just watching them. Sometimes I would feed in a thought or say, should we try that … but I didn’t feel like I was directing them. I was kind of following them, and then adjusting a bit or holding a space with all the team. We were holding a space for them to play.
Was there anything about the directing process you found particularly challenging, or anything that surprised you that you didn’t think would be challenging?
Lenkiewicz: You know, all of it was challenging. But before the shoot, my terror was whether I would be able to help actors, and whether I would just be sort of impotent. If [the actors] say, “I can’t do this, I don’t understand this,” what would I do? It was strange that my love of actors was also kind of my fear. I talked to other directors about practical rehearsals on set, and what do you do. Just imagining the day was terrifying for me. Then as soon as we were doing days, and I could see, okay, we just all work together, and it’s such a sort of teammaking ritual, then that terror went down.
I found the edit very challenging, because I felt like I knew what I wanted. The set was a foreign body for me initially. But the edit, I thought – well, I know images, I know story. So that was hard, because you get a lot of opinions, and you just have to sort of listen to everyone and respect everyone, and take in any good ideas, but also try to keep your own ground.
I found different challenges. We premiered in Berlin, and that was amazing. Then you read some reviews and you’re like, ugh! Each time, you think – we’ve achieved our thing, we made the film! And then you realize there’s a life of putting the film out there. But it was all incredible, really. I was very lucky.
Without getting too spoilery, I’ve heard you talk about the fact that you initially had a softer ending. I agree that the slightly darker ending works better, but I wondered if you could talk about why you felt the need to shift the ending and what you were hoping to achieve?
Lenkiewicz: Originally, we had a beginning where there were shots from the end which would set up the end to reassure you that everything was great. So when you came to the end, you remembered the beginning, and you were like, oh! It’s okay. Everything is fine. I took that out because I felt like in a way, it was up to us to decide what happens. And I love it in a film when it just stops, and you think – what has gone on there? What were those next few seconds? Who did what to who?
I personally – you know, maybe I have a dark psyche – I personally find the ending very hopeful, I know it’s shocking, it’s brutal. But I also think it’s about liberation, and I think that good things happen within it. But not everyone shares that opinion.
In the edit, we tried different endings. But I just kept honing it down, and I thought, after such a struggle, Sophia needs a dramatic exit. As does Rose. But I don’t think it’s a dark exit for either person.
